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Avengers vs. X-Men #10

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Majestic View Drop Down
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  Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Avengers vs. X-Men #10
    Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 5:58pm
I think it's fair to say that the "slide" of the Phoenix Five into megalomania has been both completed and completely botched. I don't know if it's that the pack of writers on this thing aren't communicating well enough, or what, but there's never really been any individual progression here for any of the Five (save Cyclops, and even that's been shamefully undercooked). At some point for each of them, a switch simply gets thrown. That's not progression; that's not even a story. It's just... juxtaposed vignettes.

The way Marvel approaches crossovers need to change, because what has occurred here is that several individually talented creators have assembled a barely-functioning Frankenstein's monster of a piece. It doesn't seem like it was that long ago that Marvel reworked the way it thinks about publishing crossovers (the story used to march through existing titles with tie-ins all around until the crossover was over), and changing that to the "main book with satellite titles" model was definitely a change for the better. But creatively, things are still being done the old fashioned way, with the story being passed from writer to writer like a baton. It's not working.

Saying "every issue actually needs to be written collaboratively" is—I'm sure—significantly easier than putting it into practice, especially if Marvel wants to do one of these things every year, but the fact remains that what the current approach has given us just isn't any good, and something needs to change.

Edited by Majestic - 15-Aug-2012 at 6:02pm
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  Quote Leo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Majestic

I think it's fair to say that the "slide" of the Phoenix Five into megalomania has been both completed and completely botched. I don't know if it's that the pack of writers on this thing aren't communicating well enough, or what, but there's never really been any individual progression here for any of the Five (save Cyclops, and even that's been shamefully undercooked). At some point for each of them, a switch simply gets thrown. That's not progression; that's not even a story. It's just... juxtaposed vignettes.



Couldn't agree more. I've been saying this since issue #7 and WATX #12.
"Changing the status quo" just means altering the ranks of which C and D list characters will be pencilled into the background - Ciel
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  Quote XtremeOne1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 7:15pm
I officially dislike this whole event. It’s just annoying. “Hope isn’t ready yet!” the Avengers cry….do you know why she isn’t ready yet? Because you freaking interfered!

And remember when Marvel said “They’re won’t be bad guys”…yet we have Xavier saying “I let them all choose the wrong side”…

This is just an Avenger's story so far, with the X-Men as bad guys. And it looks like Hope will survive this mess and we'll be stuck with her.

And yeah Magneto is going to confront Emma without his helmet and then look at like “Oh oops! I forgot! OH ERIK, YOU SO SILLY!”

And Hope, she the hell up. You remember when you sided with Shaw….yeah that’s what I thought. Or do you remember that you’re siding with the Scarlet Witch who destroyed innocent peoples lives, including your own. Oh yeah, THAT. And if Hope wasn’t horrible enough, she can now absorb dragon powers too. And a Hope saving the day issue using Wanda’s powers…way to piss off X-Fans.

Ergh I’m really scared for issue #11…Something bad will happen.


Edited by XtremeOne1 - 15-Aug-2012 at 7:16pm

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  Quote Flapflop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by XtremeOne1


Ergh I’m really scared for issue #11…Something bad will happen.

Cycke and/or Emma probably will die
"Hated. Feared. And Saving the World. Tell me what's changed."
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  Quote Lorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 7:56pm
This is starting to get annoying. So Emma is making the Xmen bow to her now? Superhuman Registration Act Tony and Decimation Wanda are backing up Hope against the evil madman who brought world peace Cyclops? Yep, there will definitely be a clear winner at the end of this.

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  Quote nikbackm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Flapflop

Originally posted by XtremeOne1


Ergh I’m really scared for issue #11…Something bad will happen.

Cycke and/or Emma probably will die


Possibly.

But Professor X will definitely die.
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  Quote _Rick_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 8:42pm
I agree with a lot of what Majestic said.

We are being presented with a ton of events that don't really flow into each other. It's like the writers (and the editors) though up of specific "cool" moments that they wanted to get to but completely failed to properly bridge the gaps between them.

In fact, considering some interviews, that REALLY seems to be what happened. Someone in a meeting says "hey wouldn't it be cool if X happened" and they just jam it in there without the proper set up leading naturally to it.

This story is just a crappy "collage" of ideas it really shows. Some of those ideas are really good but throwing them all together without a solid base and story linking them only hurts the premise.
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  Quote Zefram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 8:42pm
Didn't he die already like 2-3 times before? When FF had to kill someone writers picked Human Torch mainly because he was the only one who didn't die already. Xavier will probably survive and possibly retake leadership of x-Men. I think Cyclops will die possibly trying to stop Frost who will then completely lose it and be taken down.
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  Quote Flapflop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 8:44pm
Cyclops will kill his 'father', comes to his senses and wants to make ammends, Emma can't allow that and wants all the power, they kill each other, the phoenix searches a new host, Tony makes a jean doll which is an container, the locked up phoenix is send into space. Surviving X-men and Avengers make peace and agree to work together to make Xaviers dream come true, nobody mourns Emma. The X-schism is cancelled, Wolvie provides tenures for all at his school. The End, welcome to status quo NOW
"Hated. Feared. And Saving the World. Tell me what's changed."
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  Quote Polaris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 8:55pm
The side stories were the only interesting parts of the event. That, and Magik's cool new arm and shoulder armor. Everything else was just kinda... I mean, it seemed like it was going to be really cool at first, but then... just... no. And the direction doesn't make sense to me. Why would Emma lose her grip on Phoenix moreso than Cyke? Emma is much more controlled with the use of her mutant abilities, and her will power is quite stagnant. It's just another way to boost Cyke's ego.

What they should've done is role reversed. Emma's been flip flopping evil and good forever. What they should've done is have her come out on the plus side, cementing her position as a "hero", not a "villain". Cyclops should've hit rock bottom here - technically he hasn't done anything wrong, it's just Emma at this point (with the rest having been taken out of the equation). Cyke should've hit rock bottom, and if they were planning to kill anyone, it should've been him, serving as beautiful irony, considering the Pheonix's connection to Jean, and what it did to her so many times.

I'm thinking the Phoenix Force itself will be destroyed in the end. Will promises of "for good", but like all of Marvel's epic things, they will always return. Phoenix, Apocalypse, etc.

Emma just looks like the Phoenix's bitch here, which I'd be okay with if Cyke was worse off, but he's not. He's maintaining more composure, and that's super lame. He's been such an annoying prick for so long, they needed to, as I keep saying, let him hit rock bottom so they could later redeem him and show him becoming a better, more rational, compassionate hero.

The ending is going to blow big balls.
Curses! I've been bludgeoned!
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  Quote London'sBurning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 9:19pm
Seemed like a good idea.
 
Now I see I'm just completely over it.
 
My friend is all whoa. I read it and think:
 
1)like others this is such an Avengers story.
 
2)Emma is soo going to bite it.
 
3)it's making it very, very clear to me that I am so taking another hiatus from Marvel barring DAREDEVIL which I think is the only non-x-book I read.
 
I did love the art. But I find myself being awed, but at the same time in the overall I feel a burning anger toward this. BURNING.
 
 
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  Quote InsipidLust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 9:34pm
All I have to say is:



I am not amused with this crap.
Revenant is Coming.
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  Quote Blackcyclops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 9:45pm
Brubaker failed on all accounts here. After getting, imo, some enjoyable issues from 6-9, I just felt like Brubaker didn't do anything here. Considering how much fun I had with #9 and #8, this was a total let down. The art was cool but Brubaker didn't do anything for the story the same way Hickman, Aaron, or even Bendis did over the last few issues. He didn't have any of the fun energy I got from Bendis issue #8. None of the great character moments Aaron's #9 had or none of the masterful writing from Hickman's #6. This was easily the weakest issue since #1 from Bendis and that's saying alot.

I've actually overall enjoyed the story but Brubaker just left a very bad taste in my mouth and forces alot on the plates on the last two writers, Bendis and Aaron. They have to finish their story and compensate for what should have been a good transition issue. So boo to you Brubaker...boo.
"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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  Quote Polaris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by InsipidLust

All I have to say is:



I am not amused with this crap.


Word.

"BOW BEFORE EMMA!" ... Emma doesn't need to use telepathy to get people to bow to her... she can just rock their sh*t with her biting with and help them realize she deserves it.
Curses! I've been bludgeoned!
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  Quote UncannyScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 10:33pm
This event suffers from one major issue, too many cooks in the kitchen and they all want to put as many ingrediants into the broth as they can. Meaning we are getting a hodge podge of s**t all mixed together. Bits of it are good (certain parts of issues or full issues or some character moments etc) and then you get other parts that are just so terrible you gag and wonder why you even came to try it.

The progression of trying to save the world in gray areas to bats**t insane just happened way too damn fast. Granted these were five individuals that were not the stablest mentally but with so much being shoved into 12 issues it's just lost all semblance of making sense together. And there is not "oh it's fair on all sides" at all. Both sides are being horribly portrayed here. While the Avengers are being made to seem the heroes and such, I don't agree that only the X-Men are victims in being badly used. Both sides are hypocrites and just really suck in this event. Why Marvel didn't just go with them having to team up to fight a true bad guy I don't know. Sure it's cliche but it would have better segued into Marvel NOW. This was just poorly conceived and executed overall. I'm really disappointed as the caliber of writers involved on most counts should have led to better. I'm pretty much to the point of not even wanting to bother reading any of these huge line crossovers as they do nothing but disappoint. I'll stick to the small in the line itself events like a Spider-Island or such.
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  Quote Rickbarry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 11:38pm
I hate this event.
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  Quote London'sBurning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 12:38am
Originally posted by Polaris

Originally posted by InsipidLust

All I have to say is:



I am not amused with this crap.


Word.

"BOW BEFORE EMMA!" ... Emma doesn't need to use telepathy to get people to bow to her... she can just rock their sh*t with her biting with and help them realize she deserves it.
 
+ 2
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  Quote Polaris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 12:40am
Originally posted by Rickbarry

I hate this event.


This event hates us.
Curses! I've been bludgeoned!
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  Quote UncannyScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 1:21am
In Marvel Comics Universe, events hate you!

It really can feel that way sometimes lol. As you see the care and craft that many creators put into their own books they normally write and then suddenly we get these events that are utterly stripped most times of backstory and continuity in case there are newbie readers around and just rely on the most basic and cliche of story telling techniques that just really suck most times.
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  Quote kanderson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 2:27am
I get how they say there is no bad side because the PF5 are another side completely. But I do agree that this has not been a equal sided event. It has been very much about the Avengers and 5 Xmen.
Problem is that the Avengers started the whole mess to begin with the X-Men were in the right. I just hope that Bendis and others do the X-Men some justice post-AVX.

I do love the art however, that has never been in question
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  Quote cloneX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 2:40am
Bendis can only do the X-Men justice by leaving the x-books alone.
"I left all my new classmates with evil clowns and brain-washed X-Men so I could hide and talk to myself. Not the way to make friends Trevor." -Eye Boy
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  Quote Milkshake08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 2:41am
Uncanny, I read "too many cocks in the kitchen" rather than "cooks" and laughed out loud, due to me finding it true.

As an aside, I've liked random issues of this series, but I've said from the get go this thing is a hodgepodge of ideas, and that I don't understand why they are making the Avengers out to be such heroes and sidelining all the X-Men that aren't going crazy. Why is the Phoenix making them like this? Shouldn't they be explaining that? It hasn't really done that since Dark Phoenix, except a little bit with Jean in Endsong, but even if the Phoenix were just outright evil, they could have shown some reason why it's affecting them this particular way, you know, for character development.

And I just can't forgive this story for elevating Hope and Wanda in the way it has. Hope is still a brat, so she's not out of character, but she's siding with the AVENGERS who were trying to capture her to possibly kill her and stop her from getting the Phoenix in the beginning. Now they want her to take it. Makes no sense. She's all buddy with the Scarlet Witch over her four lights friends, Rogue, and Kitty, who've been friends of hers and supported her and SAVED her life before...whereas Wanda is the reason her life has been so hard. It makes no sense. I'm hoping Rogue really tells of Wanda in the Uncanny Avengers coming up or I may very well be saving some money every month and sticking to enjoying my Marvel TV shows.
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  Quote Kipe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 2:45am
It makes no sense. I'm hoping Rogue really tells of Wanda in the Uncanny Avengers coming up or I may very well be saving some money every month and sticking to enjoying my Marvel TV shows.


You know you're f*cking up when Shakes threatens to not read a book with Rogue in it.
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  Quote UncannyScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 2:47am
Lol Milkshake, either way you read it its still true.

With the Hope thing, while I find her annoying most times and it still makes little sense, if they were to actually give a reason in story (which they won't) I could see why Hope is with the Avengers. Hope has wanted the Phoenix and the power all this time. Cyclops and them were not making any indication of giving it to her. So it makes sense she thinks that the Avengers might be able to defeat them and she'll get something out of it. If that was the case she's just as power hungry as them.

It doesn't work like they think, but I'm guessing Marvel thinks that it's even wrong and right. Avengers were wrong at first and X-Men right. Then X-Men are now 'wrong' in their power crazy ways and Avengers are 'right' so therefore even right? Nope not even close Marvel. Nice try though.
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  Quote kanderson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2012 at 3:53am
Nice try indeed.

My Biggest pev is ...... Where the hell is Cable????
He should come out and bitchslap some sense into Scott and everyone else, and really what was the point of X-Sanction anyway? Marvel said it would be the first shot for all of this but I am not sure how that even applies?

Edited by kanderson - 16-Aug-2012 at 4:10am
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